The Grand Island Independent Forums

Remember the outcry when Obama said no illegals would be covered by any government plan and was called out in the halls of congress?

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/ ... ml?showall



Personally, I think we should let them. Collect (Like they'll really be required to pay anything) the first payment and THEN deport them. Something about criminals being punished reassures me...

I know this is complex for you, but here is an attempt to explain it to you.......

The "exchange" would be the private plans, one being a public option that people can pay in to.

If a person choose the public option over a private plan, they have to pay for it just like the private plans. It's still insurance.

If a person is citizen, and they are low income, they can qualify for income assistance to pay for their premiums so they're not force out of being able to afford and get insurance simply because they are poor.

If a person is illegal, they will not get access to those federal, taxpayer funds. They will not get covered by any federal, taxpayer funds. Just like people who live and work legally in this country now (and even some who are illegal) can pay for and have insurance, that option will continue. By shutting out illegals from getting access to insurance (again, not a dime of which is payed for with taxpayer dollars), they are left uninsured. This then leaves them to do what many do now - go to the emergency room where we all pay for the bill they walk out from through the form of higher insurance premiums and higher taxes.

People who come to just visit this country go to a US insurance agency most of the time to purchase temporary health insurance should they have the need for medical care while here. If non-citizens are banned from doing that - which this language very well could have led to - that would cause a lot of visitors to reconsider if they want to come to our country and spend their tourist dollars in the first place.

So now that this has all been explained to you, maybe you can tell us what part of your comments tells us what you believe the lie is. Because it's clear, through current and ongoing federal law, illegals shall never and will never in the future be able to get direct taxpayer assistance to pay for their insurance. If they want that, they need to take the steps to become legal and seek citizenship.

The entire quote:

And gone, for the moment, is an immigration fight that threatened to derail the entire bill when Hispanic lawmakers protested a move to include Senate verification language that would bar illegal immigrants from purchasing insurance through the exchanges.

That fight, like the one over biofuels, will be waged on another day, in a showdown with the Senate over just about everything else in the bill.

What’s that???...an admission…still INSURANCE??? And all this time it has been sold as “health CARE reform”.

Now the spreaders of all this false information about health CARE reform are admitting the whole issue is about THEM saving a few bucks on their INSURANCE while the rest of us are REQUIRED to pay their savings and getting less for what WE pay.

Bubba, I am not surprised. I have been saying all along this is not the right way to go about reform. However, I was called uncaring, greedy, and a whole slew of other names because I did not support this. It creates more cost, more bureaucracy and more red tape, while taking down revenue for medical professionals, medical research and more. The pharm teams have been bought off by the Dems on this, and we are told by the President himself, that people here illegally will not be "covered". Now it appears to be a little different than what was promised.

The only change experienced by the past election is who gets to lie to the public. There is no change in the DC machine. Same political games, different person at the top.

howsoon, I as well have been saying this pile of excrement will actually destroy the health CARE we have. You see I believe we have the greatest health CARE in the world…probably why the rest of the world wants to drag us down to their level.

There is little doubt in my mind the rest of the world is covetous and jealous of what “we the people” have. They cannot stand to see something different than what they have and they have the Progressives, in this country, falling all over themselves attempting to destroy the Government of our Founding Fathers…that is the only way Progressives can FORCE their perversions.

Obama and company have just continued the long line of usurpations of our Constitution. I heartedly agree nothing has changed in DC and nothing will as long as “we the people” continue to elect these kinds of pompous windbags to rule us.

Are you saying that illegals can't buy insurance right now??? Either you are wrong or lying. As a committed Neo-Marxist, I know what I'd wager on.



With all of the companies offering insurance, we really need one more? One that will be far, worse, and cost far more???



Riiiight! Like they can't get a drivers license, use taxpayer funds at schools, and all the rest??? OMG...no wonder most of America is against you!!!

Foreign "tourists" can be awfully expensive...

Well, we won't "see" the cost, thanks to the government keeping the price of the policy artificially low, due to subsidies via direct/indirect taxes from "we the people".

And I believe in Unicorns, and flying cars and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow. You actually believe that other countries are so jealous of are health care "system" that instead of trying to adopt it themselves they are trying to ruin ours? Could it possibly be that people have an opinion different than yours and they think its the best way to do healthcare? Naw, probably a socialist plot.

The current bills being debated suck, are not reform in any sense of the word and will probably cause more problems than they solve but a lot of the oppenents are crazier than the proponents.

I do. Look at the international cap and tax proposals. It's all about reducing the giant and it's unfair advantaged. By any standard of masure our Health Care is so much superior to anywhere else in the world, it isn't even funny. Thats why people who can afford such, come HERE, not the other way around...



No. Any opinion that insane can't be an honest one...

I am befuddled that MY opinion has such an impact on you enigma. As far as I know, and have stated over and over, you are under no obligation to agree with it; nor am I under any obligation to agree with you. Your attempt at condescension is laughable and trite, then again it is something you have grown quite accustomed to do...dyou learn that in politics? Yeah? sooo what??? Crazy doesn't make us stuuupid.

You're right about one thing -


But wrong about another -


NO ONE is crazier or more ignorant than the proponents of these so-called answers to HealthCare reform.
Now, from some of your previous posts, it appears to me that you might have some very good knowledge about Insurance and Insurance regulations. So, since I am NOT an Insurance expert, I'd like to have your view as to what can be done to actually reform some of the current problems with Insurance and health care - I'd like to have an actual discussion rather than the continued antagonism you direct at some posters.

It ought to be for what it costs. Why, it costs so much, millions of we the people can't afford to get it.

When you say "we, the people", you really mean "they, the rich people". In fact, I would put it "THEY have the greatest health care in the world."

There was a time not so long ago I would have jumped up beside you. It was actually a post made by enigma in a discussion about the event center that caused me to reassess my opinion…go figure.

Do I think the “rich” can afford things I cannot...yes I do. Do I think “they” owe me because “they” can and I cannot…no I do not. Nor do I believe health care is a “right” because the “rich” can afford it and owe me the same "right". Do “they” appear to be selfish? ...probably…are “they”? ...I don’t know.

I have to wonder how many of the health care procedures we have now would have been developed if the “rich” people, with the means to pay, were not used as guinea pigs. I wonder how many facilities like St. Judes or Children’s (Omaha) would we have without the “rich”?

I am close to a family who has a child with disabilities. Their disabled child began having seizures and required brain surgery. This family does not have the means to pay for the surgery yet the surgery was done, successfully. Would this child have received this treatment anywhere else in the world?

The questions about the current “reform” proposed to run by Government is the scenario that comes to my mind…an assessment of this child and others would suggest they are a burden to society for their entire life. They will likely never contribute to the GNP therefore logic suggests it may not be a prudent investment to provide care for them. My 90 year old mother received a hip replacement…prudent investment?

The thing is when everything is evaluated by cost, MONEY controls everything. It is a generally accepted truth, Government is controlled by MONEY so why would I allow Government pinheads even within arms length of my health care decisions…now or tomorrow.The wealthy may have enhanced but standard is still better than the rest of the world so, no I do in fact mean “we the people” have the greatest health CARE in the world.

Health care should have the best results right? Lowest infant mortality, life expectance.....So, from the CIA World Factbook, some lists to review.

First, the infant mortality rate. The CIA World Factbook lists from the countries/territories with the most deaths per 1000, to the least. So we should be at the very bottom, right?



Then there is life expectancy, listed from the longest average lifespan to the least. Again, we should be at the top, right?