The Grand Island Independent Forums

In a word - None.
This article reminded me of the killing of abortion doctors, and how the christian right-wing protested that hate speech alone shouldn't be held responsible -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34684945/ns ... ork_times/
And a follow up -
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/tag/scott-lively

Yet, remember how often we hear cries of persecution and prejudice from the christian right.
And I'm not buying the O'Reilly/Beck argument that it's the law of unintended consequences.
This kinda stuff is deliberate, and my suspicion is it's more about the money than it is the principle - As in, fear sells and these fellows are committed to being rich salesmen.
My problem is the lack of accountability, especially their own. We hold used car salesmen to a higher standard then these so called men of God; These salesmen seem to have no standard at all.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-de ... 3-898.html

I think you'll enjoy this article, too, weasel.

That's why I'm glad Jesus spread out both his right AND left wings on the cross to give us ALL the opportunity to be saved. There are hypocritical Christians, much like there are hypocritical non-believers. Bottom line is that we're all born into a sinful world, we all sin, but God still loves us all.......doesn't mean he's gonna save us all, that's where faith comes in. Kinda like a parent, ya might not be proud of what your child does all the time, but ya still love 'em.........and even though ya love 'em, sometimes ya gotta punish 'em too.

We as humans are gonna do stupid things.......have for thousands of years.....heck, they stoned people in Biblical times if they preached something that wasn't accepted by others in the region.....kinda like the whole "kill 'em for bein' gay bill" that was mentioned now.

I agree the Bible contradicts itself a lot, and the period in time that certain books were written shows how society influences certain views. I can choose to do just what Genesis says, but I'd run out of cows to sacrifice. I can't speak for all Christians, but I just know that my belief and daily devotion to reading the Bible helps me live a more peaceful life......and that belief also has me convinced that I'll someday be in Heaven enjoying eternal life.

WoW. That was extremely well written.
Thanx.
It really puts a perspective on the topic.

After a wise & trusted friend of mine ( who occasionally reads this stuff I write here ) pointed out the I seemed to be rather narrow in my criticism, I decided that there's a couple of things about this thread that I need to clear up -

> 1st off, I consider this a pretty good explanation of left-wing religion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_ ... s#Religion

> 2nd of all, this thread is about how hate filled words can cause evil. There is no such thing as a simple apology or excuse for such actions. These are grown adults who deliberately reach out to many tens of thousands of people for purposes which are not spiritual.

> 3rd, I would ask you to consider this insofar as other religions:
The Islamic right-wing doesn't try to apologize after the fact. The U.S. treats their actions as terrorism to be locked up or destroyed, violence by them is not always a prerequisite; Right-wing Islam is a targeted religion.
The Buddhist, Confucianist, Shinto and Hindu right-wingers of the Far East practice xenophobia; So we (the U.S.) shun interaction, we treat these communities as lepers and we keep a wary & watchful eye on their actions.
Right-wing Jews are a known cause of tension between the U.S. and Israel; The U.S. measures it support for Israel against the actions of these people.

None of these things happen as regards right-wing Christians.
In the U.S. -
We don't try to lock up, target or destroy these people.
We don't treat them as lepers to be contained or spied upon.
We don't hold them accountable for our Government's support of Christian programs.

If a Christian is offended by this thread, I would ask him/her where their heart truly lies; With their faith or with their politics?

In regards to the articles, there are so many religions out there that it does cause conflict between groups, I don't think there's any denying that point.
As a Christian, do I believe homosexuality is wrong? Yes, I do.
However, as a Christian, do I believe homosexuals have a right to live on this earth and can go to Heaven? Yes, I do.
If those guys are preaching their belief as to what the Bible says about homosexuality, that's fine, preach away. But if they are truly out just to make easy money and create hate-filled animosity, then obviously that's not the mark of a good Christian.
Jesus wanted us to love one another, not hate each other to the core.....doesn't mean we don't all have our faults, but the perverbial "who are we to judge" comment comes to mind.
As to the question of whether my heart lies with faith or politics.......I'll gladly trust my faith 'cuz I'm positive God can do better things for me than any left-wing, right-wing, independent, human being will ever be able to.

I think that one of the difficulties we have with American Christians is an unfortunate inability most of them seem to have in distinguishing between what is American and what is Christian -- and supposing that the two entities are intertwined and/or codependent. As an unashamedly evangelical Christian , I find myself trying to distance myself from the so-called right-wing Christian representation in this country. I can't account for what others do (only myself), but I am truly grieved when I see people like Fred Phelps ('God hates Fags') representing Christianity to the rest of the world.

From my understanding of the Bible, Jesus and His earliest disciples cared very little about politicking in a corrupt Roman Empire. They understood that they were resident aliens, citizens of a different kingdom; and that their primary purpose was to live righteously, love others, and win people to the gospel message of forgiveness of sins. They understood that the success of Christianity depended in no way on approval of the State -- indeed, Christianity flourished most when persecuted by the State (it also became most diluted when Constantine proclaimed a 'Christian Empire'). The early Christians were not afraid of preaching a Christian morality (mostly to the church), but never expected that morality could be legislated -- rather, that it came from hearts individually changed by the application of a faith in Christ.

IMO, American Christians by and large (and perhaps especially those in the public political sphere) have allowed their Americanism to blur their Christian loyalties, and in doing so have forfeited their focus on the essentials of the Christian faith -- and in doing so, are of very little value to either America or Christianity.

Perhaps I'll have more to say on this at a later date . . . that is, if the hardcore right-wingers haven't first crucified me as a traitor.

A true Christian won't be involved in politics in the first place, IMO. And especially not so far as holding a governmental office.

This is just my personal opinion given my understanding of worldly governments and who controls them, according to the Bible.

Fred Phelps represents Christianity to the rest of the world no more than a pig represents a fine race horse.

I am encouraged by your comment, and I appreciate your powers of discernment.

But to those lacking such powers of discernment, to those who may have a pre-existing bias against race horses, to those who may have never seen a fine race horse (or at best have had their view of one obscured by the radiant ugliness of the pig), and to those who have heard the pig loudly claim to be a fine race horse, the differences may not appear so great. That's what concerns me.

Speaking of Phelps, one (yes, just one) of his followers was standing outside a fenced area at Invesco Field the final day of the Democratic National Convention in DC. As we were standing in line to go through the first layer of security, this guy was standing there, on a bullhorn, yelling "God hates fags....God hates Democrats....God hates Obama..." and so on and so forth, then repeating like a looping tape. We actually were all laughing at it, and felt even a bit sorry for him. After all, he was all by himself and he was getting no reaction except for laughter.

A most profound post zap, I concur wholeheartedly. It is a daily struggle, at which I fail miserably, to keep focus on the One to whom I am indebted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-r ... 22615.html

I appreciate the responses from the true Christians on this Forum;
But, I must tell you - I consider all religious fundamentalism to be a form of insanity.

Since the problem seems to be the Ugandan's shouldn't we really be talking about LEFT-wing Christian accountablity? I know, it's an oxymoron, but since "right wing" is virtually non-existent on the continent, generally the biggest reason the continent is in the state it's in, aren't all politics left-wing?

Not real sure why I, being a Right-wing christian, need to be accountable for Ugandan's wanting to murder people???

Cool.
Then take responsibility for Pat Robertson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5TE99sAbwM